Navigating the Not Yet

In this episode, Heather and Ashley explore the themes of fear, anxiety, presence, and patience in the context of personal and professional growth. They discuss navigating the 'not yet' or ‘in the meantime’ phase between what we can imagine and where we are now. The conversation emphasizes curiosity, self-compassion, and support from others as essential tools for overcoming obstacles and achieving goals. They also highlight the significance of celebrating small wins and grounding in purpose and joy.

Host: Heather Gates, MPH
Guest: Ashley Bishop, Operations Manager

Takeaways
•Courage to imagine is a brave step towards improvement.
•Navigating fear and anxiety is a common experience.
•Curiosity and self-compassion can help in getting unstuck.
•A supportive team is a game-changer.
•Finding joy in the journey fuels motivation and progress.
•You're enough already.

Chapters
•00:00 Introduction and Team Dynamics
•03:20 The & Stand: What “&” are you standing in today?
•10:59 Navigating The Not Yet: Embracing the Meantime
•19:44 Getting Unstuck: Tools and Strategies
•25:21 Navigating Frustration and Energy Management
•37:15 Finding Joy in the Journey
•43:59 Nurturing Growth and Progress
•49:58 Embracing the Not Yet and Self-Acceptance

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Transcript

Heather 

welcome back to the podcast, y'all. It's episode number two. So excited to have you back at the table with us today. And I'm joined by one of my favorite people on the planet, Ashley Bishop. Hi, that's me. You want to introduce yourself? I do. 

Ashley

So like she said, I'm Ashley Bishop, and I'm the operations manager here at Human Centered Strategy. And I work mostly behind the scenes. I do a lot of behind the scenes, ⁓ support Heather, support the business.

Keep us on the tracks. All the tracks. All the things. All the hats. Yes. I am many. 

Heather

And they're not truly not enough words to express my gratitude for, first of all, your willingness to jump on this train in the first place. It's been four years. Four and some months. Crazy. Since you've worked here. And so many things would not happen or exist without your nurturing. So support feels like, I don't know what stronger word there is, but whatever it is that's being the glue that keeps the whole thing going, please know and I probably don't tell you enough. Not true. Certainly this podcast would not exist. So y'all.

Now we're inviting you on a team meeting. Yeah, ooh, I love that. It's me and Ashley around here. Here we are, hi. Even on the podcast, there's no one producing this, there's no team. It's Ashley. Yes. It's us recording this and... Let's see. Well, there's a team of technical support. Customer support, chat, GPTN, all the things help. Googling our way. Facts.  Yeah, forward to this. I just am grateful and supporting me. we'll probably talk about this, but.

Y'all know in the last podcast, I talked about this sort of fear of fire equation and moving forward. It's so clear to me the role that having supportive people in my life has played in that journey. The cheerleaders that keep going, that we're gonna figure this out. 

has really been a game changer. So I'm deeply grateful and excited that you're here. We're going to try to remember that we're being recorded and that we're sharing this with the world. And it's not just another day of us sitting at the table today. Before we get into it, I'm playing around with calling this the and stand. OK. OK, so we're going to do an and stand. Yeah.

And that's the question of kind of what and are you standing in today as you show up? Do you want to go first? Sure. want me to go? 

Ashley

So I did have a little time to think about this. So thank you for that. sitting, I'm actually sitting, I'm not standing today, but I'm sitting in probably fear but anxiety. I know we haven't quite figured out like if that's the same, if it's so different. So fear slash anxiety and forward. anxiety about personally and professionally at the house, they're building the deck.

I've got all of that swirling and we have a lot going on at the office, we have a lot going on at work, we're launching new things, we're doing new things. There's a lot of anxiety and fear that comes along with that and forward. forward in a peaceful way and forward in We're gonna get through this and it's not as scary as we think it is or the world's not gonna crumble around us So I would say I'm sitting in that 

Heather

And I'll just deep breath right? me the snow globe. Shake the globe Anybody who has worked with me probably mostly in coaching, you know, I talk about settling our snow globe We literally brought a snow globe to the session today. Shout out to a actually who made this for us  as a way just to remember to settle our energy so part of this is kind of acknowledge what we're sitting with I am sitting in a lot also ⁓

And I think I'm gonna do it as partially an intention. So I want to be in presence and patience. And I too am settling the energy of ansiness is what I would call it. ⁓

I I mentioned on the first podcast that I just, I run high energy on the inside. All geared up in there. Call it what you want to. ⁓ It could feel like exciting. It could feel like anxiousness. It can feel kind of itchy. So I'm holding a lot of energy that I ⁓ do want to sit the snow globe down and settle into this conversation.

Presence is a big value for me. Yeah, sure. A value, you know this, value close up, a value really being where I am when I'm there. Yes. Because there's a thousand, we could be thinking about, you mentioned the deck, like we could be thinking about all the things that are happening or client work we're not doing while we're doing this or whatever else. I really want to try. So I think part of my and is more of an intention. Yeah. ⁓

So presence to be here and really be here. And then the patience part of that, because we talked a little bit, I think all that we've been doing lately has prompted the and that we're going to dig into more today. ⁓

And one of the things that's coming up for me about the podcast when I think about it is just how much I have to say. Yeah. mean, all like lists. told you I was like, and I have like 10 things that I want to talk about about tools. So when I say patients, I think I'm realizing that, cause it took me so long to get here. Right. it's almost like popping the cork on a champagne bottle. It's like, it's all coming up and you just want to share it all or share it all, say it all. that's.

I know that I can be kind of intense and sometimes overwhelming. So I wanna be patient with what's in me too and trust that we have time. We don't have to cover all the things. ⁓

We're just going to talk a little bit today. I think we said this last time, but we are going to try to make these podcasts around 45 minutes, not more than an hour. If we can figure out how to keep track of time. have learned some things since last month. So anybody who listened to episode one, and I encourage you to do so, give some backstory. You'll know that our episode turned off. Yep. We didn't record part of it. We now know why, and hopefully today are not doing that. So we're learning a

Yeah. So I'm trying. Patience is not my gift. It's a hard, that is such a hard space to be in and learn patience. Yes, that's a hard one. Life wants me to keep learning. It keeps giving me practice. I know, I It's the worst. So the and that I intend to stand in today is some tangle of... presence and patience with settling my antsy, my antsy energy. Okay. Thank you for the share. Yeah, absolutely. I can't wait to see your new deck at your house. It's going to be lovely. So many things. And it's a lot. It is. And I think it's, I'm glad you mentioned house because I think we're primarily today going to dig into kind of the business strategy side of things. And y'all were never just the business or strategy side of things. Right. We're always people in bodies and with lots going on. So I'm glad that you reminded us of all the ants that we stand in that don't necessarily relate to this context.  big announcement. Are you nervous? Not at all. Go. No one is expecting what I'm about to say. Our orchid is going to bloom soon. Yes.

And we're gonna talk more about her today. She's beautiful. And she is a metaphor for today's content. Yeah. So we decided that the end that we want to focus on today is lovingly referred to as the not yet or the meantime. I'll just frown and nerd this up for a second. Yeah.

So in strategy, when we're working with clients, whether in coaching or groups or whatever the context, I often use a framework ⁓ that we call Imagine Now Action. ⁓ Y'all know we work in complexity. Many of you listening do too.

I like simple frameworks for complexity, not because it sort of oversimplifies the work, but it gives us a way to enter into complexity. It's always tricky for me to add complexity to complexity as frameworks go doesn't feel helpful. So I'm always on the search for kind of simple ways to dive into this. So we talk about...

often, what do we imagine, where are we now, and how do we bridge the gap? Individually, collectively, whatever it is. Lots more we could say there about context that we're planning in and all those sorts of things. But for the purpose of today, I think what I want us to hone in on and just settle into and get curious about, right? That's what this podcast, this isn't about like us, hear all the things we know. Some of it is here's what I've experienced

experienced and here's what I'm really curious about. But there's a space. When we're having a conversation around what do you imagine, where are you now and how to bridge the gap, that means we're spending a lot of time managing the gap. Yeah. And it can feel real tricky for a number of ways. I mentioned the orchid.

Anybody who knows me knows that the story I tell myself is that I don't grow things. I do a lot of things. Growing them is not it. If I want a flower, I buy it in flower form. So it feels like a miracle that this orchid has survived in this office now about four years. But y'all, the thing about an orchid, ⁓ hi, we're doing a podcast. Hi, UPS, come, hi.

And we're going to not edit this out because this is live in. Thank you.

This is cards for Stand in the Yen. ⁓ perfect. That's what that is. Okay, real life. All the things are happening. y'all, an orchid looks like a stick with leaves most of the time. Facts. And so as far as the imagine and the where are we now, it takes a lot of showing up in the not yet phase.

gradual watering, not giving up all the things before it blooms. And then when it does, we get real excited around here. Yes. So our orchid is about to bloom and it is the inspiration ⁓ for today. She has five flowers. Buds. Those are buds. I have more I want to say about the meantime, but when you think about this space.

We say showing up in the meantime, kind of what, or even the orchid, not yet. ⁓ Is there another way to say that, is kind of how you think about it?

Ashley

Well, if I go back to like what I am sitting in today, which is fear and forward, it feels like the mean, I mean, the meantime between how I'm actually feeling anxious about X, Y, Z right now versus where I want to be, which is in peace in presence. Yeah, it's like what do I need to do to support myself in right now as I'm feeling the fear and anxiety in order to help me get to that. peaceful present place. 

Heather

Yeah, interesting. So in that example would be kind of a feeling or an emotion, right? The gap between here's what here's how I feel and here's how I want to feel. You know, other ways I think it shows up is here's the business that I want to build. And I'm starting at zero negative thousand dollars. Yeah. Or here's the podcast that I want to do. And I'm too scared to hear my own voice. Right. So it can be lots of things.

You know, I think as we think about usually in the client context and in ours and we're thinking about imagine You know, it's more like what is the future culture right the goal. Yeah, what's the goal, right? Yes I think that's a good way to talk about it, too It really is about the space between where you are now and moving toward right a goal. Yep

One thing I want to say before we get into how we get stuck in this and we'll just do some share. Yeah. Is I think it's so brave to be willing to imagine. Yes. Because in my experience, there's no way around that. courage, meaning like I'm willing to say yes to disappointment, the tension in the end, the all of it. So, but just right out the gate, I want to say to, you know, folks listening, we still don't know what to call y'all, the y'alls. ⁓ Anybody listening that just kudos for the courage to set the goal in the first place. I agree. For community, for agency, for self. Cause it comes with a lot. It does. You know, y'all heard on the first podcast how much I care and love people. I'd say, you know, this may be T I don't know what the boundary around TMI is. Y'all let me know. We're gonna learn. We're learning.

to love and to care as much as I do means I'm pretty much always some version of broken hearted also. Yeah. Because it never.

The gap never connects the way we want it to. So when I draw the diagram on a big sheet of paper in front of a session, it's a nice little tidy box on what do we imagine, where are we now, and how do we bridge the gap. In real life, it's not a straight line like that. I agree. It's up, down, sideways, backwards, in a circle. It's spaghetti diagram, and it can feel very disorienting. Yes. So now I'm starting to get into where it starts to feel sticky. Right. That's where I think we get so right.

disoriented. And like telling like the stories that we create within the mess too, only keeps us like more stuck. What for you? So let's talk about stuck. Okay. Where, where does it get? What does stuck look like for you in the meantime? In the, in the not yet? What? do you see? think it's also always okay to pass. Right. We can always pass. So you can say you don't answer it. 

Ashley

I would say just like the negative, is that like a negative bias or like the negative stories that I'm like. So it's in your own story. my own story, like getting stuck in like my own stuff, like I'm in my own way. And it's, it tends to be like the negative story, like. perfection like sneaks up in there like catastrophizing. I definitely do that. And it just, yeah, I feel like it keeps me from getting like getting to where I can imagine. And it kind of like robs me of the joy of the meantime too. Yeah, I just wish I could just like put that down. Like it's hard to put it down, but you can. I can remind myself that to put it down and don't let it rob me of the experience of like navigating and getting curious about navigating this meantime space. So for you, it's it sounds it's like. my own stories can block me, Or get in the way of the, of the imagined.

Heather

I connect with that on even episode one, like the example I gave about how long it took to get going with the podcast. You know, that sort of, I... can sort of imagine it. And not to say this is what you're describing, but on that sort of what is this kind of personal experience of it. I can imagine it. And I have a lot of story and a lot of stuff that's almost keeping me. Because another place I can get stuck in that. I mean, people say like we're stuck in our heads, but really, either in that or just the thinking about the thing. Yes, absolutely. Like that sort of stuck can keep me from action. Right.

And what we know is some sort of action is required to bridge the app. Yes, absolutely. You can only know, so just to add a layer aside from the sort of storytelling that we do in ourselves, I can whiteboard and note take and infographic. Make all the lists. my husband. Someone out there smiling right now. love a list, y'all. I really love a list. And we can make a list. And eventually, we have to check some stuff off the list by doing the things.

that help move us. So I do think, yeah, I agree that there is a stuck part in this that's just kind of in our own swirl that we may have tools for. I have another one too, but maybe before, let's just talk about tools. How do we get unstuck from that sort of story swirl?

Ashley

think the first thing you do is just you have to recognize that you're even stuck in the first place. I think is really important to acknowledge going back to my anxiousness, acknowledging for myself I'm feeling really anxious about this.

And trying not to create story around it, think is, for me at least, my first goal is acknowledging that I'm feeling this way. Like what do I need to do? Do I need to grab some water? Do I need to go take a walk? Do I need to sit down and talk to someone about it? and just trying to figure out how to process whatever it is that I'm standing in, process it through my body so that it doesn't hold me up. 

Heather

And for me, just hearing you describe that, because it's so different, even when I think back to how I handled my own stuckness 10, 15 years ago.

this, again, it just, feels brave. Like the willingness to turn toward it. Right, and not run, yes. Yeah, to like, let me, and I hear in you curiosity. We're gonna talk about one billion times about curiosity, but turning toward the thing. Yes. to get curious about it and see what needs, how do we tend to it? Because in the podcast story example, there was some work I needed to, there were some steps, it was not the time. So it wasn't just about how do I make myself get ready, or make myself be ready when I'm not ready. It's not like just launch it then you'll figure it out. And maybe we would have, maybe that's true too. We can't know that. For some things maybe, for others. Others more, yeah, more time.

So I think that's a helpful reminder is to get. curious about it, another thing that's coming up for me, I think I'm going to save it. 

Ashley

Well, and I was going to say, I feel like getting curious about it just changes. It takes it from a negative more to a positive, for me at least. Huh. Say more. Where instead of beating myself up about, we're doing a great job, beating myself up about. like whatever the issue is or whatever's happening in the moment. If I just like get curious or start asking questions about it, like you said, like turn towards it versus turning away from it, it just helps, I don't know, maybe I'm less scared of it at that point or like less fearful of the anxiety or less fearful of the action item that I need to do. It's just, I feel like that just helps me get unstuck a little. 

Heather

You said something that made me think about, you said turn toward it with curiosity, then like not beat ourselves up or something, I think you said. Y'all, don't know how to say differently that kicking our own ass ⁓ is not a success strategy. It is a burnout tool. Yes.

Yes, I have spent a lot of time in that space. Somebody smarter about it all than me can help us understand why we do that, but I just see it come up in myself over time and it just wears me out. ⁓

So yeah, anyway, I think this turn toward with curiosity, self-compassion, and I know that's like, y'all don't roll your eyes at me or you know what you can because I would have been that person too. But to the extent that we can extend grace to whatever it is that is showing up for us as we're in pursuit of this thing that is brave in the first place to even believe in better, in different, in a dream, in possibility.

And things are gonna show up along the way. You also mentioned, think in your, listed through a bunch of stuff that you do and talk to somebody was one of them. I think I mentioned this in the very beginning intro, but just, I continue to be amazed at. ⁓

Again, spoiler alert, I am quite an independent person. I'm an independent lady. I want to do all the things. I like autonomy. Yes. And life keeps teaching me that to get to the imagine that I have, it's a team sport. Yeah. And that's a lot of people, whether that's...

Ashley in the office, if that's therapist, if that's coach. That's the IT person I was just on. If, right. All the people. The account, all the people, y'all were not meant to have to figure all this out by ourselves. So that's another thing that I would offer to this particular type of stuff that you're mentioning is it can feel really lonely. And it doesn't have to. And there are a lot of tools and experts and things I think

that can join us in that place and that alone feels a bit of a shift to just hold space with you in that. So one of the tensions, I'm gonna just shift gears a little bit. One of the tensions that I've been, I was gonna say struggling, but I don't feel like I'm struggling navigating. There, I like that word, navigating. so.

We don't have to look far for real life example. We're gonna use the podcast. Yes. Okay. Okay. So years and years of not doing it, ⁓ thinking about it, getting ready, but not taking the action. They're very far away from the imagine. Yeah. And a sort of energetic, and I'm not saying work wasn't happening. I was doing a lot of work on me. Yeah. That helped, but we weren't like moving the thing forward. Right.

It is becoming clear to me that once I get really ready, I'm ready to like light the firework and have the thing go right now. Yes. So, yes. Feel free. I know when I brought this up that you might have a lot to say about this. So this is partially me acknowledging perhaps you too, everyone.

When I'm ready, I'm ready. Yeah. So the tension for me is I can get very frustrated. Yeah. And it's strange to me to hold these two together, to be like, slow, slow, slow, slow, slow, slow. But then when I'm ready, I'm like, bloom, right now. Right. Go. Yes. Faster. Why does this take so long? What are we doing? And again, because it can't be just me. Right.

things don't go as fast or as smoothly or and I can get sort of hair on fire and control-y about it. Not sure if there's more you want to reflect about your experience. you're really, I mean you're taking accountability for it all. You're doing a great job. Keep going. You're you're saying it. You're doing a great job. Yeah, I get antsy. Yeah. So I thought I would just name. And I think that's just...

the energy that you hold and have to manage in your own meantime. Correct. So anybody else out there who, I've, I'm sitting here. I'm to have to get curious about myself right now in real time.

I don't think I'm alone. Y'all let me know. I care a lot. I'm ready. Something about this readiness that builds up and then I want it all to... to happen and what we know is that I can get a little hair on fire about things and it can catch other people and things on fire. Yeah, sometimes. So the goal is to keep it at like lava level energy. I love lava level energy, she's my favorite. Just so you all know what we're trying to do over here. ⁓ Because it's where I mean, so what happens in that space? So when I get that way, ⁓

patient, I'm sending right kind of getting into things trying to make things move faster than our capacity can actually support. Yes. And we make mistakes from that place. It's frustrating. I create stress in the ecosystem. So I wanted to just honor that. Thank you. Or mainly Ashley but also maybe everyone.

as something that comes up in the meantime for Yeah, absolutely. Yes. And it feels valid. It feels like that's just what's really helpful for you in that time. I don't know that it feels helpful to me, though. OK. It feels like it's happening, but it doesn't feel like lava energy feels helpful. I'm trying to keep the right.

tension balance between effort and ease. And when I get how I'm describing, it's like the fire gets too big. Right. ⁓ In a way that's not my best work. And my guess is that it is fueled by fear underneath it all. Yeah, for sure. Like fear that it's not fast enough. Right. And actually,

probably what's happening is I'm trying to close the gap faster. Yes. Yeah. Because the, don't know. Yeah. The, don't know what people are gonna think. I don't know how it's gonna go. It is so- All that story. It's so uncomfortable to be in the itch of that, that I imagine that I'm just trying to close the gap as fast as possible. part of that, again, back to stay curious is, all right, I feel, so a red flag for me is I feel really frustrated. Yeah.

What is happening? Yeah, what's going on for me? ⁓ And so if it's me just trying to shortcut some energy Facts I don't want to feel those things. Yeah. Yeah, it's like okay. What do I do with that? It's

And I can go either way. Sometimes it's like, I have to move this energy out through physical intense stuff. And sometimes it means I need to sit in this and slow it down. Yes. Shake the snow globe. Shake, shake, it, it, shake it, it down and let myself be present because it usually means I'm living several steps ahead of now. Right. And truly all we can do is whatever now is. Yes. So can get a little tilted to forward. So

So

how do I settle back in that? yeah, I think I can get too controlling and too much happening. And also I think sometimes so frustrated that then I like give up.

So there's that, there's that risk that sometimes frustration either drives us real hard forward, or I think it can be like, nevermind.

Ashley

I mean, that same frustration you saw play out in real time with me trying to figure out how to separate is real time example from like 30 minutes ago. Yes, exactly, trying to figure out how to separate the tracks in the podcast and...

I was getting so frustrated. The support person was doing an amazing job trying to help me through it. But also it's through chat. So I'm like, she's giving me links. I'm looking at things. I'm feeling frustrated. And I was like, you know what? We're just going to do it this way today. We're not. I don't want to do this anymore.

because I was so frustrated. was like, I just want to be done. I don't want to feel this anymore. I want out of this project. ⁓ So yeah, I feel that deeply. And then what happened? You were like, lean in. You're almost there. I was like, fine. Did I sing it to you like that? Pretty much. I was like, fine. I'm going to lean in. So we leaned in. We now have an email stream going. have tech IT department looking at it because what happened is not actually common. for us. So I am glad that I did lean in. Thanks to you. 

Heather 

What's so interesting. Like it's funny because I was you know I've been thinking about this until what I just watched it play out in real time. You're like we're not we're just going to do it the other way. Yeah. And I said you're so close. I know you're so close because I think so that can happen. I we can quit too soon. Absolutely. When things get frustrating. So figuring out you know what's going on there.

That's another example. We're having somebody else to kind of cheerlead you on. You're so close. You're so Because there are times where I'm not, because I think another example, and then I want to come back to some of the tool stuff around ⁓ frustration, but.

There are times where, I don't know if frustration is a signal, but I think the thing that we end up needing to do is quit sooner. Yes. Or let go. Right. I was going to say, it reminds me of that time with the, you drew the thing, what is that, graph. You're like, you can spend energy and have all this energy.

And then it's like it's an inverse you. Yes. Right. What if there's a certain point of of return.

Well, just, you know, sometimes, so in that example, it was, so close. How do we push through? You're so close. I've got you. Let's do this. And this is a really technical kind of small example that we're giving. But if you were in a bigger, right, think about the organization. Yes. You know, there are many days where I'm like,

We're done. Right. I'm tired. Lock the door. can't do it anymore. We're done. So it can be on bigger things. ⁓

you're close or you don't mean it and you're burnout or whatever it is and it's about carrying, just keep watering the orchid. Right. Keep showing up. What do you need? Get curious, tend to yourself, have others support you and carry on. And then there are times I think where, and not to get into the weeds of it, but in our business, we've realized that we were pushing towards something because we said we were going to, that ultimately we kept getting stuck around and needed to ask ourselves if that was still the thing to move to.

So like permission to question the imagine. Yes. Yes. That's huge.

Because I think, right, sometimes when we're like, here's the big goal and I'm gonna go for it. We learn things over time. You've done this specific. Yes. You like think of this example of why did we pursue this? Because we will ask ourselves that question. Do we still need to do this? And I think sometimes where we get stuck is we have spent two years trying to do this. Right.

are we not going to push this thing over the finish line? Like we set that goal. That was a goal that we really wanted to And it feels like fail, right? it can feel like failure. I agree. But to sit in it and go, why did we pursue it in the first place?

and answer that question. Have we done that, gotten what out of it? Right, did we get what we needed out of it? Yep. So, and we changed the imagine. Right. And we've let some stuff go. So I think we have examples in even just within this business of places where maybe we've let go too soon. Yeah. I have a couple, I think, of strategies that I think...

I don't know if we let go too soon or if I just wasn't ready for them. Yep. So that's a good question. that's a curiosity. And there are some things that we pushed real hard on, maybe passed when we needed to. Yeah, I agree. And eventually let go. And all of this, like, why does this all matter? Who cares?

To me, this whole conversation about the end is being a mindfulness around the energy that we're expending. Yes. In service too, because this is all about helping humans flourish, making things more beautiful and better.

So how are we spending our energy and service to that? So my hope is that conversations like this are like, God, here's how I am dumping buckets of energy into this. Here's. a more supportive and efficient way to do it or be on the lookout for X1Z. What else comes up when you think about, part of what on this podcast will be important to me is that we're not only thinking about shining the light on all the stuff that's hard, but what are the tools that we use to move?

Are there other things that you've thought about or that you feel like we should mention that fall into that for you or that like examples that we have here about it? 

Ashley

Maybe. So I think finding joy in the meantime is just like fuel for... yourself. So flowers, like, my gosh, we love flowers around here. So yeah, just like finding your things that keep you joyful and excited about the work or the project. I just feel like it helps. you maintain clarity to maybe sort out, am I giving up on this too soon because I'm just so frustrated this isn't fun anymore, I don't like it? Or is it, I have literally done every single thing I know to do on this and I just cannot see it going any further than this. just keeping. just some playfulness to the work or I feel like that for me, that feels like a tool that I use all the time. Playfulness, you said a lot in there. I'm going to just kind of peel the onion back a little bit. 

Heather

So one thing I want to dig into a little bit is when you said...don't remember your language. If we could just play those tape back. I know, right? I don't think that's what it is. Can we roll the tape back? I'm showing my... Did the tape capture this? ⁓ No, this sort of reminding yourself why you're doing this in the first Yes. Because there's...

Back to the framework, what do we imagine, where are we now, and how do we bridge the gap? Sometimes that's a really big imagine. So I'll take us, human flourishing. Then there's a lot of little tiny frameworks within that. So I have to remember, what's the big goal?

why are we doing this? It feels hard to help reignite the fire that drives the rest of the thing forward. it just keeps you grounded. Keeps you grounded, keeps you reminded, it's humbling. ⁓ I think a lot of this is like humbling, this human experience is so humbling and...

I mean, some of it helps remind, I'm willing to trade this temporary unease and this discomfort.

in service to human flourishing for everybody. So that is a grounding reminder. I have to go away and get quiet a few times a year to remind myself while we're doing all of this. I have to get quiet. I give myself permission to question everything. Absolutely. What are we doing? Why are we doing it? Is this the way to do it? And then all those little imagines in between about specific business strategies, because you could hold onto and be reminded

about the big imagine and then realize you've got to let go of some of the things you thought were going to get you there, either they're not and we have to be honest with ourselves. That's it, About like, because busyness is not necessarily progress and sometimes I think we get confused. I agree. So what are we doing? What do we want to be doing? How does that align with the reality and our energy and our capacity?

And that we not let some of that stuff gets like make us lose a big thing. So just you talked about joy a second ago and also this getting grounded in the point of it. And those feel both really important. I just wanted to shine a light on that one and then agree with you 1000 % that joy is fuel for the journey. I don't know about you, but I know I have been that person.

Y'all Ashley and I have known each other for a long time. She and I worked together in prior roles. Yeah. And then she's been here four years. So anyway, I think once upon a time I was push, push, push. Joy is the finish line. Yeah. Work, work, work, work. And then we play when it's done. Maybe in some models that works.

in this particular complexity and this long game that we are in, we have to have joy along the way. I'll put a pin in it, another podcast, I wanna have a whole podcast about joy. ⁓ It reminds us what the point of this is. Yes. I mean, it's part of flourishing, it's fueling, it's grounding. I think it's our birthright, right? We don't have to earn it.

So, yeah, I agree. you mentioned flowers, little things. Yeah, absolutely. That make just the day-to-day stuff to remind us what does bring us joy. Because I think joy looks really diff- know, joy sounds sometimes like theme park roller coaster. I agree. But we're- Cheerleader-y a little. Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. It's more, I've never thought about this way.

But back to our framework on Imagine and Now, it's making sure we keep joy in the now box. Yes. Always now. Always what do I need to do to help support my own human experience and continue to work in service of that. too. Yeah. And I don't want to confuse that with fun. Like this is not...

I'm not saying that this work is fun all the time. Right. Because it can be hard and heavy and... It's hard. It's heavy. complexities and the realities that we are faced with and end and around us right now are...

heartbreaking, frustrating, disappointing, all of it. And we need to hold joy alongside of it to keep us in it. So I think it's part of what helps keep us ⁓ in it. What else? So other tools, joy is a reminder, staying focused on what your goal is.

whatever you need to do. way out. Some of it is zoom way in. Keep watering the plant. Give her tea water. She will thrive. Everybody doesn't know what you're talking about. Tell the people. The thriving of this orchid in our office is that it gets... So ⁓ I'm a hot tea drinker.

And so, you know, when you come in the next day and there's still tea left in your cup, that's what goes for the orchid. She loves it. So just know she's thriving now like four years and she's about to bloom again on leftover cold tea water. So I give her all that I can and she seems to be okay. She's so happy with it. environment is part of thriving and how we can bloom. Yeah. Because I also have, you know, not kept alive a lot of orchids. So for all you

people who are going to tell me that it's impossible to kill an orchid, not true. Yeah, they're finicky. So yeah, keep watering the plant is another thing that I would say. There are days where we're stuck in, you know, we're a small business. It's an interesting consulting model. We don't know what necessarily the work is going to be six months from now. Sometimes that can get pretty scary. And so we're just like show up with excellence for the work we have. Keep showing up. Do the thing.

sometimes it's boring, we got to enter the expenses and do the contracts and the stuff that's not like, doesn't feel like human flourishing contribution. And again, we got to be honest with ourselves about what is actually fueling that progress, but that all of that little stuff. ⁓

I think often about slow motion success. Again, back to the, want to light a firework and like have it all done. I think I have to keep sitting in just the day to day care and nurturing. And I'm talking about a plan as a metaphor, but I'm talking about the business. I think it's true if people are nurturing a culture that they can imagine, ⁓ teams, relationships, community partnerships that...

you know, it's a, it's a continue, keep showing up in the values that you have, rinse and repeat over and over. that's keep watering the orchid, I think is another one that comes up for me. Ding the bell. Ding the bell. Yes. You don't explain that. 

Ashley

Yes. We do have a bell in our office that It's beautiful. It's like this gold, vintage-y bell that you would find at a hotel. And if anyone's ever worked in customer service, know the thought of hearing the bell ding is actually quite horrific. ⁓ But we've spun it here where it's like any time we... what I guess what we're defining as success, like we have a success to share or we've done something that we didn't think that we could do or learn something new or discovered a new curiosity, we will ding the bell and it's actually become really fun. 

Heather 

We ⁓ stole this idea from LinkedIn. Did you know this? you think I invented this? I was like, wow, that's so clever. I did not invent this. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, I think in North Carolina County, they have the same setup. love it. Yeah. So it's the little things. The point of the bell is sometimes progress is really hard to see. Yeah. And so every time we do a thing, and it could be a little thing, like we sent the newsletter, we posted the thing. We signed the contract. Yeah, whatever. We like ding the bell and I might be in my office and I just hear it ding. Yeah. So it's a fun way to hear.

that the team is celebrating, but I love it as a reminder. Because I'm not good at this. Back to my, ⁓ I'm just ready to push. I'm ready to push to the thing, go, go, go. what that means for me is I am constantly just seeing all the things that are not done yet. What is not done, what is not excellent, what is not, is how I am naturally. ⁓

my natural tendency. think anybody who works in QI and continuous improvement, I'm looking at you right here. You're feeling me on this, right? It's your job. Like that's part of what's helpful is to see the things that feel not yet. What's sometimes then as tricky as we miss what is. So, and this is actually, I've never thought about it this way until right now.

in that swirl that you mentioned earlier where sometimes we get in a tangle of fear about where we are, so much of that I think is what do we not know? And grounding in the what do I know, what is true? It just, feels related. don't know, that didn't connect as well when I said it out loud as it did in my neurosensons. ⁓

But there's something about appreciating the present. Yes. And I use appreciation with caution because I think sometimes we can use appreciation and gratitude to hide out. I agree. To miss the other side of the end. So we need to hold to kind of the whole truth of it. Yeah.

How are we doing on time? Do we know?

Y'all, okay. 40 minutes? I was supposed to set a timer. I know. And I had it out and I forgot to push the button. We're at 51 minutes. shoot. We're supposed to be wrapping it first few minutes. Okay, not recording. Playfully doing things. Let me just say two things maybe and then we'll tie this, tie a bow on this. Okay. And wrap it up. Yeah. And then I'll ask you if you have anything else. I do. Besides closeout stuff if you have anything else you wanna.

chime into this conversation around navigating the not yet. Yes. Maybe that's we'll call this. I love that. Navigating the not yet.

A reminder for myself who can get frustrated about how I can't control all the parts fast enough is I have to continuously remind myself to move the Jenga blocks that I can. Yeah.

So y'all know the game Jenga, right? You can only, we can't move them just because we want to sometimes. And it might mean we have to pivot. I can't push that right now and I can move this. So that's maybe another place to be curious is like if we feel stuck, is there another place that can help us move forward? ⁓

Yeah, move the energy. I'm sure we're to talk a lot about that because across all the tensions in the end, there is this energy. I agree. I don't mean energy. I don't know how to say that differently, but like it's a, we're in, like we're humans, not robots. We're in a body in a life that feels a way we have sensations in our body that need tending to and acknowledging. And we'll talk a lot more about that, I hope on the podcast. So 10, 10 to the energy, ⁓ that is you. And I think the last

thing I want to say about this ⁓ maybe just as a lesson from my own journey is you're enough already. ⁓

I can't locate you in the face. That's a good one.

Yeah, I wish I could look at everybody who's listening to this right now. thought about that. was like, do we need to be doing this on Zoom or YouTube or some other way? I want to look straight into the camera and say, you're enough right now. Whatever this thing, right? Because we care so much and we're attached to it and we think about we're moving towards the imagined. And so all the frustration and disappointment can be internalized. And I'm just like, we're not.

We're not hustling for our enoughness through this work. Yeah.

So I believe deeply that you're already enough and worthy of love in all the things. ⁓

Yeah, I just wanted to say that one. I love that. Yeah, it's important. Okay.

So, I want to say thank you. People have been... I appreciate when folks reach out and say what's resonating with them about the podcast. Appreciate everybody's grace. I'm probably too close to the mic right now and you're just hearing weird mouth sounds. We're figuring it out. We're trying to show up. And do imagine that we're going to keep doing a couple of these a month. I'm excited for the folks we have coming up.

in August. So stay tuned. Keep coming back. Ashley, remind people what the things are that they need to do. Yeah, absolutely. So if you enjoyed this episode today, you can give us a follow or leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. We would really appreciate that. And then you can also email us at connect at standintheann.com.

if you'd like to share some thoughts on today's episode specifically or share how you show up, struggle, or even get through the meantime. My favorite thing is that you can follow us now on Instagram for more like behind the scenes stuff just to see what we're up to and kind of keep up with Stand in the Ann.

And lastly, you can check out our show notes for this episode ⁓ for details and links to the things that I just mentioned. So yeah, thank you so much for having me. We should post a picture of you in your awesome Juniper shirt on Instagram today. will. I really am kind of sad for the audience that this is not a visual. can't see. Yeah.

Okay y'all I think we're closer to an hour than 45 minutes today. I'll try to rein it in and am loving this opportunity. I'm so grateful for you listeners and super grateful for you Ashley. Thank you. For all the ways that you ⁓

I mean, truly, I guess your job is to help my imagine come real. Yes. And it is very clear to me every day, the role that you play. So I'm super grateful for you. I'm grateful to be here. Today and all the days. And keep showing up, everybody. Stand in the end. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye.