Bringing curiosity to the ANDs within us: A conversation about “parts work”

In this episode, Brooke Nielsen Yang, a psychotherapist and coach, joins the podcast to discuss the concept of “parts work” and how it can help individuals understand different parts of themselves and manage internal conflicts. Heather and Brooke share examples from their own experiences and tools they use to help engage and navigate their human complexity. The conversation delves into the different types of parts within us, such as authentic self, protector parts, and exile parts, and how recognizing these can lead to living a more authentic life. The discussion also touches on the importance of curiosity in navigating our own internal landscape, and ways that it helps us connect with others too.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions shared in this episode belong solely to the host and the guest and do not necessarily reflect those of their employer or affiliated organizations.

Host: Heather Gates, MPH, Owner & Strategy Partner, Human-Centered Strategy, LLC (https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-gates-9a837913/)
Guest: Brooke Nielsen Yang, Therapist, Coach & Educator for Highly Sensitive & Neurodivergent Leaders (https://www.linkedin.com/in/brooke-nielsen-yang-55437313/)

Resources
No Bad Parts By Dick Schwartz 
Coming Home to Yourself: Recalibration for Sensitives Workshop
Brookes website: intuitivewarriorway.com

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Transcript

Heather
Hello, this is Heather Gates and I welcome you to the Stand in the And podcast, where we have honest conversations about the messy complexity of the human experience, where we get stuck and how we find forward in the and of it all where many things are true at once. This podcast is designed especially for those of us who want to make things more beautiful and better for everyone and sometimes need reminding that we are human too. I'm so glad you're here.

Welcome back to the podcast, y'all, where I'm joined today by our first expert in the and, Brooke Nielsen Yang, who according to her beautiful website, is a guide and a coach who knows that the right support combined with your own inner wisdom has the power to transform. Brooke, thank you so much for being here on this adventure with me today.

Brooke
Thanks for having me. Really excited to be here. Good.

Heather
Before we get started, I know I just mentioned what your lovely website says, but I'd love to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself in the way that feels meaningful to you. Yeah.

Brooke
Hmm, thank you. Yeah, so like you said, I'm Brooke Nielsen Yang and I'm trained as a psychotherapist and I also work as a coach and guide and what you read from is from my coaching site. And I work with sensitive, intuitive, thoughtful people who are standing at a threshold in their lives. That's really what I've realized is my people.

And oftentimes they're super capable people who look like they have everything together on the outside, or at least they just look as capable as they are. And often inwardly, they're feeling like, gosh, something in the way that I live and how I lead is just no longer in alignment. So the work that I do with people is helping them drop into a deeper relationship with themselves and that often allows them to then move forward with more clarity, intuition, and self-trust.

Heather
I’m like, and this is why we are brought together today. my gosh, I resonate just so deeply with everything you said. I do want everybody to know that you are not my therapist or coach. Yes. Even though they probably just heard that and they're like, of course. But I resonated. So I didn't realize you had coaching site and, and other, but one of the things I wanted to reflect back is I felt so mirrored by it the language on your site around sensitivity. would say, and I didn't know this for a long time, but would identifies a highly sensitive person. And for a long time saw that as a liability. I think even the example I want to share as we get in today is related to that sensitive part of myself. So, I just love having that. It feels lovely just to have that reflected back.

Brooke
Hmm.

Heather
Again, in a way that is guiding toward intuition and trust and self-leadership. So I'm excited, gosh, now even just personally excited to get to have a conversation with you today. Again, I think I said before we recorded, I'm a little sweaty in the hands to even be talking to somebody maybe who's a therapist on air for everyone to hear. So I just will acknowledge that as we get started. But I'm grateful to dig in today.

In particular, as we talk about this notion of parts work, and I'm kind of air quoting that because I think it might mean a little bit different things to different people. Before we do that, it is our tradition on the podcast to do what I call an and stand, which is just a quick check in. It can be feeling words or something else around the and that you find yourself standing in today as we are joined together in conversation. I'm happy to go first unless you are ready and want to share. ahead. 

Aside from, it relates to this podcast, I'm showing up a little nervous. I think for me, so I'm just getting back from a weekend with a lot of time in the car, which for me meant a lot of podcast and listening and consuming of content. So grounded in a macro context

Brooke
Yeah, absolutely.

Heather
I feel like I'm showing back up at work today. In the and of feeling I'm quite intimidated and motivated or activated around just kind of the big picture that we find ourselves situated in. You know, from I work a lot with people who are in the public health and human services space and kind of what's happening there. But even broadly, when we think about changes that are upon us and coming related to AI and technology. There's just a lot. And so thinking about what it means to be engaged and connected and lead and support others in that space, it can feel really overwhelming and intimidating to find your way and I do find a lightness and an

optimism and a motivation, I think that comes from just what I see over and over about the power of connection and of people, whether connection to self, which we're going to talk more about in the parts of us, but really connection and collaboration with each other. So it's an interesting kind of dance to hold. I'm grateful for the opportunity in my work to kind of be able to step into a piece of it, to the hold that I'm in intimidated and I'm showing up and I'm motivated is a place I find myself kind of as you know before I call in and talk to you today. It's kind of the swirl that I'm standing in.

Brooke
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I just appreciate the vulnerability and it makes me want to expand. I had like a couple words, but it makes me want to kind of expand my sharing a little bit. Gosh, I relate to that a lot. And my version of that is holding, just what I spoke to in my intro of like stepping into myself as a threshold holder, not just a

depth holder. And then the difference of that might only be in my own mind at this point, but there is an evolution as far as the role that I'm holding and the types of work that I'm doing. And it feels so exciting and inspiring. And I love talking on podcasts and connecting. And then there's also, to your point, just like there's a lot going on. And as a sensitive, it is a lot of self-work  and regulation and processing and there's fatigue there from just how much it takes to psychologically, I saw, I'm quoting someone here, I saw the title of a video by Miriam Williamson, I believe her name is, and she said the title of the video was how to psychologically endure these times. I was like, boy, does that, that speaks to me.

So yeah, that's my and is really holding that excitement and energy and also groundedness as well as fatigue.

Heather
And as somebody, you my guess is you're holding that and, and you're holding others in the and of that also. Right? So the fatigue of I'm in it. We are human too. keep reminding all of us on this podcast, even though most people listening are in a role to help others in some way who are on thresholds and navigating that type of fatigue. And we are also

Right? Feel it and in it. is a lot of processing. Let's use that as our entry point then Brooke. Because really, when I think about the work, you mentioned the language of self-work, which we could probably unpack a little bit too. I use, you know, the language of, I think reminding us again, often as people who are helping others, that we are always also part of the work.

Then also our own internal showing up, our way of being. We're a piece of all of this too. And so for me, this journey around self work really came to be from a place of, just felt like I was in the way of myself. Like I was in the way of things or how I was being. So I have one of those people probably with insatiable curiosity about what is going on. What is happening with me. 

But in the past couple of years, one of the, I'll call it a tool. I'm going to turn it to you to explain how you may call it a framework. I don't know what you would say, but I think of this idea of parts work as a tool. And on this podcast, right, the design is to create a space for honest conversations around the complexity of the human experience, talk about how we get stuck.

And ways that we find forward. So far, most of these are just conversations with us all out here figuring this out. And what are we doing? Where do we find ourselves stuck? So over the past couple of years, one of the tools that has been the most helpful for me is this notion of doing parts work. It very much speaks to me too around this language that we have about the and, where many things can be true in us and among us at the same time.

That's my entry point for this conversation is I really wanted somebody to come on and just say, I'm somebody who's like, when I get excited or feel benefit about something, I just want to tell folks about it. So this is not me saying everyone needs to do this or it's going to work for everybody else. But it is a tool that has been really impactful, not only for me, but how I interact with others. So I'm curious if you'll just level set us, Brooke. And what do we mean when we say parts work?

Brooke
Well, I just want to touch on a couple things you said. sure. One, you're like, I'm just out here trying to figure it out.

Heather
Yes, all right same as over everybody that's for

Brooke
As for everybody. So yeah, I'm coming on with some expertise and experience and totally coming in with my humanity and like, when I'm like, I'm, you know, how to work on myself. Sometimes that's like, I will that work is like, I'm gonna go take a nap. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm pulling out all my frameworks, you know, it's sometimes just, well, I need to drink some water.

But yeah, I was so excited that you wanted to talk about parts, because I also love it. And I also am insatiably curious as well. So when I find something that just clicks, yeah. And parts work really has been that for me as well. And really, everybody who I work with, when I introduce it to them, at first, usually they're like, that's weird. Pretty soon after, they're like, well, this just makes sense. So I'm in. So the way I often introduce this to people and this is like personal example is opening, if I open my fridge and I've got some leftover chocolate cake there and chocolate and cake are like, oof, big, big loves and of mine. And so if I open that, that fridge and I see the cake there, there's going to be numerous parts of me that, that speak up. So there's going to be the part of me that's just very much, I want the cake.

I want the cake, I want the chocolate, yum, yum, yum. Then there's gonna be a part of me that is like, well, okay, we're about to see a couple clients. If we eat that cake right now, we're gonna get that sugar spike and crash in about 20 minutes. That's gonna put us in a place that we're not gonna feel so good. So right there, and there might be a few more voices in there, but right there, that's parts.

There's the part of me that wants to eat it, the part of me that's like, yeah, we could, but think about the consequence. And most people are familiar with that push-pull in themselves. oh, I want to, yes, no, yes. And you could replace that cake with just about a million different things, dilemmas. So parts is this idea that there is nothing pathological. In fact, it's completely normal.

for all human psychology to have parts of ourselves, we could call it ego states, but just aspects, we could call it aspects of ourselves. So again, nothing problematic here, but each of these parts of ourselves have different priorities. They might have different thought processes. Sometimes they have different ages.

So like, for example, with the cake, the part of me is just like, I want the cake. It might be a part that's just really oriented to pleasure or even like relief, right? If we do something that's kind of like a dopamine hit, like, that feels good. Or I feel that's a distraction maybe from the discomfort I was feeling. And then the one who is like, well, let's think about your schedule. That sounds like a, it's very adult, right? That part wasn't.

Brooke
with five. That part sounds very responsible and is kind of forward thinking. And those two probably have pretty different ways that they view the world. So just there's a lot more to say here, but it's this idea that when we can understand that we have parts that we are not one thing within ourselves, it's actually so much easier to support ourselves and work with ourselves instead of work against ourselves.

Heather
And I feel like, whether people are oriented, so I came into parts work through the work of Dick Schwartz and IFS, Internal Family Systems, whether you know about that or other frame or use whatever model of parts work you do, it is in the language that we use, I think, as people to say, well, part of me wants to go to that and part of me doesn't. Like, you hear it.

We feel it in us. And I think to the point that you made there at the end, so much of the why this matters for me is this kind of almost separation of different voices, pieces, parts to better understand and then also help manage

the internal conflict around, right? So much I think of where I still to this second get in struggle the most is on the inside in internal conflict of some sort. And so parts work helps me understand. And I don't know, again, like there's a piece of me too that's still like, this feels so weird to say. There's a part of me is like, you're so weird.

I'm like, I know and it helps me and I'm gonna talk about it. But understanding the different perspectives and then the role that I can play almost as an internal facilitator to help bring some cohesion. Because in absence of that, and I'm happy to share an example too if that feels helpful, but in absence of that, it's this sort of disorienting what is true.

kind of feeling like, what do I care about? Like, you know, who am I? What do I care about? What do I really want when you have all this? I don't want to say it's always conflicting, but different stories, different perspectives on the inside. So the like, so what part of it to me is, and I'd be interested if there's more you want to say here, like why it matters. To me, it has been a way.

Heather
Yeah, to bring a deeper understanding. And there's a lot we could dig into here about the depth of understanding. You mentioned how old the parts are. There's more you want to jump into there. Yeah, yeah. I'd love to.

Brooke
piggyback off something you saying, what's the relevance here? And honestly too though, I have a feeling just as we talk more, people will get the relevance because you're not weird and this is applicable. And I just know the majority of people are gonna, they're gonna feel how it's applicable. So here's an example.

Heather
It's going to reveal itself maybe as we talk more about it.

Brooke
And something that came to my mind is me, this is me like, I don't know, 15 years ago and before I had a horrible, horrible anxiety. So teens, twenties, and then yeah, I mean, certainly still have some anxiety, but it was really bad. this is way before IFS, Internal Family Systems was talked about or PARTS was talked about.

But back then, the way this was framed was externalizing things. So taking something that is inside and putting it outside of us. And so how I was introduced to this was externalizing my anxiety. So rather than, I'm an anxious person. I'm just anxious. me and my anxiety. I'm so anxious today. it's awful, my anxiety. This idea of starting to name it as anxiety almost as a part.

as a thing that is not authentic me. So I started playing with using language of like, anxiety is really loud today. Or anxiety is saying, you shouldn't do that because that would mean you're lazy or you shouldn't do that. Something bad's gonna happen. And it...

and I think this is what Parts Work does, it started to just create a bit of distance between me and this thing that had tormented me. And that did numerous things. One, and this is something I see with people big time, is there's like a de-shaming effect.

Heather
Yes.

Brooke
So rather than it being like, God, I'm just this anxious person, it was like, wow, anxiety is a big player in my life and it's really hard on me. But I could name like, I don't always agree with it. And it's definitely not who I am at my core. So kind of allowed it to not hold such a power in my identity. One.

And then two, by naming it as something separate than me, it allowed me to interact with it in a new way. Rather than just beating myself up, why am I, why do I care? Why am I worried? I could start engaging with it, like even talking to it. Tell me more, like what are you anxious about? Why are you here when I'm at this coffee shop? Everything's okay, what's going on? Does that make sense?

Heather
Oh my gosh, a thousand percent. And I didn't know we shared this similar of a story, but same on the anxiety side. one of the, even to me too, pre knowing about parts, I think I had gone to something, you know, like wrote on a paper that I'm going to let go of anxiety and like burn it into fire. And then I had a terrible like incident that I'll spare the details of, but then finally just like sat down at my computer was like, dear anxiety.

seems like you're upset about something that happened and that I thought we weren't gonna like, but it seems like you're gonna be around forever. So we should get to know each other differently and just like poured out this letter to my anxiety. And so I very much resonate with what you're saying around the distance and the separation, not only from the I am this, the identity, like separating from identity.

Brooke
Mm-hmm.

Heather
I'm very, I'm careful, I'd be interested to listen back to the podcast to see what I've said in these, but I try not to say, right, I am anxious. I am feeling away, I am feeling, I am somebody that's high energy on the inside, right? But that language does matter to me and it does give it some distance. And journaling to various parts or experiences that I have of myself has been a very powerful.

Brooke
Mm-hmm.

Heather
very powerful tool. I mean, almost like that was more a letter to anxiety, but one of the tools that I use on a regular basis is more like, you know, almost like I'm writing a screenplay, but I'm like, so what is going on? And, you know, then it's like, here's what the part says, and here's what I say. And here's like that dialogue back and forth brings distance, which brings ease. It shifts the sort of over identification with and

I don't know how to explain to y'all how it works, but somehow it brings new insight. I mean, again, it's one of those things that I think until you are doing it, you're like, what happens there? So yes, I think to all of that. So maybe I'll share an example of kind of recent on the parts side too. a place where, again, I have a bijillian examples, but I'll use one that I...

you know, is a little more, if Brooke's not here to support me as my therapist, I'll try to keep it chill. One of the places where I was getting particularly stuck, I'll say recently, so I have a consulting business in that I travel a fair amount, sometimes on airplanes, sometimes not. I love my work. As I sit here with you today in a grounded space, I love what I do.

I love the people that I work with. I feel grateful to have the opportunity to do what I do in the world. And on travel days, there is a part of me who is convinced that we need to let it all go and like just stay home and write books. So I was in a real, it's...

a disorienting amount of like what is true, you know, this sort of, when I'm getting all of those like travel day, start, and I don't even, I think one of the tricky parts was like, it felt so much like me. It didn't feel like a separate part. was like, gosh, is it true? I just really don't want to do this anymore. Like I don't want to do this work anymore. Like, is that true?

Heather
What I know to be true now, through lots of curiosity within myself, the sensory sensitive part of me gets completely overwhelmed by the travel process and wants to do everything possible to try to get us to stay at home in the routine where everything's safe and we control all the environments and there's not all the people. The, really want to be liked part of me.

gets very stressed anytime we're going to go be somewhere new and maybe not belong. The mom nurturing caregiving part of me wants to stay at home and my kids are older, like they're going to be leaving. I just want to stay home and like stare at them all the time. The business part of me,

knows that I have a job to do and contractually I've said I'm gonna go do this. So I will be getting on this airplane to go do the thing that we're doing today. We can think later about what we wanna change. The, I am here on the planet to make a difference part is like absolutely we're going. So in my head on travel days, all of this is spiraling around in like very disorienting way. Like now I understand what's happening, but before it's just this spiral of like,

you know, and then you have anxiety just from travel and planes and all that. And it just was a lot.

Knowing what I know now requires something more like, almost like you're gonna have a board meeting, but with yourself. Like, all right, team, tomorrow, so there are tools that I use that are proactive and then reactive or responsive. Proactively, I might say, all right, tomorrow's a travel day. Sensitive part, I'm.

Heather
I know that you need this and this and this because what also like internally the parts are like fighting with each other. You know, it's like who's in charge. So by separating and not identifying with any one of them, I can kind of get a handle on the big picture and then think about what do I need to do? What is true for me and what do I need to do to support myself in the fact that we're going to be traveling tomorrow? I'm going to take noise canceling headphones. We're not going to go out late at night so that that sensory part

It often, think some of my challenges right now really boil down to this dance that I every day I'm negotiating between my sensitivity and my intensity.

Brooke
Mmm. Wow.

Heather
Right, this like, am like big and go and be helpful and I'm quote a lot and then sensitivity that just wants to be quiet. So that is in me and I'm always negotiating that dance between those two and then there's a lot also that gets in there but I've had to do a lot of really understanding the needs there and the stories there and then how do I negotiate?

And maybe it's okay when we get back, we're gonna have a day where we're not gonna see anybody. Like I have to do a lot of negotiating to tend to those pieces of me that just feel true about the different parts of who I am and even helping then I think in that role is like understand the diverse set of needs that exist within me. And then it's my...

responsibility, opportunity to try to figure out how to tend to those different needs, which in essence is how do I tend to myself? Here's what it takes for me to do this. I don't have energy anymore to like compare it what other people are doing. Probably many of y'all don't have to recover the way that I do or prepare the way that I do for things, but like that internal parts journey has allowed me to keep showing up in the world in a way that I value and not self-sabotage or

right spiral in ways that I can't recover from because I'm ignoring a need or I think sensitivity. I judged the sensitive part of myself for a very long time. I didn't want to be that way. I don't right. But instead, what are the needs? How do I integrate them? That's a lot of storytellers. So I'll just say that this is kind of a specific example.

Brooke
And I would love, I mean, there's numerous pieces in there that I would love to break down. Yeah. And first of all, I just really related, I wrote it down, the sensitivity and intensity and being kind of pulled in both directions there. And a lot of times they're not always in alignment with each other. I just deeply, deeply relate to that. I think a lot of entrepreneurs do, business owners.

leaders, visionaries, I think relate to that. But I want to speak to, so first of all, I just like, wow, you navigate with such sophistication, your parts. And so I just want to name that like the way you have learned to navigate your parts is something that often takes people and maybe it has taken you years, it often takes people years. Sure. Yeah.

to get to that. I just want to recognize the beautiful sophistication that you are working within of knowing how to support yourself in these different ways. It takes a lot to get there. So I just recognize that. What I'd love to start with, so the like, what you were saying first of it can be super disorienting of, there's so much noise in here.

I'd love to orient and give people some buckets for how to think about different types of parts. Awesome. It's how I orient that helps me go, if I can start with what type of part is this, that's kind of a nice starting place.

This is, I'm kind of speaking, yeah, some people, more and more people now have heard of internal family systems. I pull from that, but some things, if someone happens to know IFS, some of this will sound familiar, some of it will be a little bit different. But there are three, generally three types of parts. There is our authentic self, sometimes just called self.

Brooke
authentic self, adult self. And I would also say parts of me, of us that are like fundamental to ourselves. So when you say you're talking about like sensitivity, that is for me an element of my fundamental self, of my authentic self.

So there's my authentic self, there are parts of me that I was born with. It's just pure me.

Then the second bucket is protector parts. IFS calls them manager parts. So these are not parts that we are born with. They are parts that come on board at some point to try to help us. So like I said, with my cake example, I was not born with a part that was able to say, well, you know,

let's think things through about how sugar affects us. At some point, I developed a part that helped me manage my sensitivity, because I think that's probably what that is. It goes, am not somebody who can throw whatever I want in my mouth and have no consequences, and that's just real. And so I developed a part, we could say a manager part, who's like, I'm going to kind of scan and just be aware of, hey, how are the things that I'm doing throughout my day impacting my sensitivity?

And how can we be mindful of that so that we have like a good day? So that's a manager part, a part that's trying to manage ourselves, our lives. Another example of a manager part is the perfectionist. So perfectionist often comes online to help. gosh, there are many, reasons, but here's just one flavor.

Brooke
Perfectionists, we're never, no one's born a perfectionist, but at some point, often sensitive people who feel deeply impacted by their environment, maybe criticism, maybe expectation, maybe really, really aware and feeling sensitive of how we're perceived and not wanting to be perceived a certain way. And so a perfectionist part comes on board and is like, I've got you, I'm gonna help us do everything right.

so that we won't feel shame, we won't get criticized, we won't be kicked out of the tribe.

So that's another type of manager part. Another one is avoidance. This could look like maybe I get really as a kid, get, you know, I was a deep feeling kid, so feelings were really overwhelming. And I was not around adults who really knew how to deal with feelings. So they couldn't really offer me help.

So I had to learn, what do I do with these big, big feelings that are overwhelming me? I came up with it, my unconscious came up with a couple parts who were like, I got you. One of them being, hey, how about we just don't feel that? How about we just kind of push that out and we just stay in our head or we disconnect from our body or we distract ourselves with other things as a strategy to not be overwhelmed.

Kind of making sense.

Heather
All I can think about right now is

Brooke
laughter

Heather
which bucket the part of me that's like, yeah, no, we're never gonna launch a podcast. So when you listen to that first episode, I think you did with Nash, like clear part examples there of this big desire to have voice, to create space, to do all of these things. And then the...

Brooke
huh.

Heather
Absolutely not. Whether it's the perfection is, I think it covers a lot of categories, but just in such real time, I can think of so many examples of what you're saying. So yes, it resonates.

Brooke
Yeah, and I'd love to see that takes us perfectly into the third bucket, which is IFS calls this exiles. We could call it vulnerable parts, younger parts, hurt parts of ourselves. But when I think of being in places where maybe I'm scared to put myself out there.

It could be usually it's a younger, more vulnerable part who maybe went through something where she wasn't fully accepted or it wasn't safe to be fully myself, fully seen, fully vulnerable, something like that. And that wound that comes from that experience, often they get kind of vacuum sealed inside of us. You know, most of us aren't.

in a position to like work through that at eight or 12. And so we just vacuum seal it away. And that's where these protectors come on board and go, let me help Brooke never do anything that might make her feel ashamed or vulnerable or afraid. So that's where some of those parts come on board to help protect these sensitive or wounded parts of ourselves. So if I were you,

just imagining how my system would work if I was having a big fear about say starting a podcast, probably there would be a young.

vulnerable part who had some experience that made this terrifying and then some protector parts, manager parts who are coming who are like, we're going to make sure you're good. And that might sound like them being like, no, no, no, don't do it. Let me tell you why you shouldn't. Or it might sound like the little one being like, I'm so scared. No, I don't want to do it. You know, it could kind of go numerous.

Heather
Everyone's gonna know you're weird.

Heather
It's going to be official. Yeah. It's so interesting. And so where I think we get tangled up in that is sorting out, So, so let's given the buckets that you used, when we have those, you know, those stories swimming in us, figuring out like, what is true? I'm always like, what is the truthiest truth of myself? Like, there's the like, is that is that me?

Brooke
Yeah.

Heather
Yeah, just, think that's part of the negotiation then, right? Cause we all have stories, stories we're telling ourselves. I often think about what stories in me need an upgrade, right? is that, and when you have this way of looking at it and you, I don't know, let's say it's a protector who says, you should never do that because this, you're like, is that true? Right? You can interrogate it differently.

You can sit in your values differently. It just allows a different way to interact to help figure out, yeah, other areas that may need tending or things that you want to work further on. Brooke, before we completely run out of time today, because I could talk about parts and examples all the time, I do want to make sure that we cover. So if people are like, yeah, I see y'all.

indeed feels a little weird and a little true and I'm curious. Where does one, do you read a book first? Do you need a therapist? Like if you're curious about parts work, how do people engage with this? Like how do I know if I'm somebody listening? Is this a DIY journey? When do I need support? What does forward look like if people just want to learn more even about this?

Brooke
That's excellent. So I think it can like essentially all of the above. It can 100 % be DIY and get you huge amount of traction. And then it can also continue into therapy coaching around it. So I think kind of like my story with my anxiety, my starting place was just naming anxiety as something different than me.

And so I think that's actually a really good place for people to start. If someone's never really thought much about this, to just go, what parts of me are in the room right now? Okay, there's a part of me who's really thrilled to be, thinking of Nash in your first episode where a part of him was like, I'm so proud of my mom. I want to do this interview with her. And then another part of him is like, I would really like to be at the beach.

Heather
Exactly.

Brooke
No, it's like that's that just doing that is a really really really good place to start and it's really profound It's not a small thing So kind of asking okay, what's in the room right now? Can I feel I think often it's not easy to start with finding our authentic selves often the easiest is well Let me find something that does that's loud Okay, maybe there's anxiety. Maybe there's worry Maybe there's rushing

That's a biggie with high achievers. We often have a part that could be an achiever part, could be a part that's just like, go, go, go, go, kind of trying to keep us up and on. And that can dictate the tone of our whole life. I think starting to name like who's at the wheel. And it doesn't, really doesn't matter.

you being able to define it and name it. It's just kind of generally describing it. So for example, if you were able to say, wow, yeah, I really have this sped up part, speaking from experience here, I have this very sped up part that's kind of always kind of scanning and trying to get me to do better and do more and just start naming that and start getting curious about

Why might they be here? And to go back to what you were naming earlier, I do it too, which is talk to your parts. So you could do this on a voice note, kind of talking back and forth the parts. You could do it with writing, or you could just think about it, which is starting to investigate and get curious. Why might this part have come on board? Now I'm speaking about protectors here, and that's usually who we bump into first.

That is a good place to start. And just like, well, for example, if your household was, really stressful, or maybe you went through an upsetting thing and you noticed from then on, it was really hard to relax and hard to just kind of be in yourself. So that investigation that I'm talking about there, I mean, that could get, there is so much mileage right there. Another question to ask, what makes this part

Brooke
like pop up and wake up and take over. What kind of things are happening that makes them swoop in? So that's the type of thing that I would say people can get huge, huge benefits from exploring journaling with themselves. That will open up more questions and more insights. And ultimately we're wanting to...

The work that I do with people is people who are wanting to live more and more from the authentic self itself, right? And so that's when people come to me, whether for therapy or coaching, it's usually kind of two directions. One, I want to live more for myself and I'm not sure how, or this other stuff keeps getting in the way, one. Or the other, if you want to go to those wounded parts, you can journal to them. And a lot of times, people benefit from having help, because it's just, that's a lot to do on our own. Yeah.

Heather
I And I certainly came at it from a combo, right, in therapeutic space, also reading. think the “no bad parts”  is that...

Brooke
great one. was going to mention that. No bad parts.

Heather
No Bad Parts is a great, I thought was a great resource. Couple things that you said that I want to just put a pin in. As I think about this idea of stand in the and and so much in this conversation, basically it's just this ability to show up in the and and the complexity of ourselves. I think one of the things that I say most frequently as a tool for whatever we're navigating is get curious or stay curious. So, I just love that you put it.

that you brought curiosity into this because I absolutely feel like it is a mechanism to help with that. And curiosity feels so important to me in really as a drawing in, right, as a coming in and closer to complexity, not a pushing away. So there's that. then briefly, as you were describing an example a second ago, you said,

getting curious I think about who's at the wheel. So much for me this journey is as I work with the parts of me, anxiety, fear, you know, whatever. Like I understand and I Heather true self am the driver.

Brooke
Hmm.

Heather
And so what do I need to do to try to continue to understand when that's not true, when I've let fear drive? I mean, I've had situations recently and it actually then helps me even in communication with others to go.

Brooke
Hmm.

Heather
we need to talk because here's something I think happened yesterday. I let this part of me, right, the part of me that is this and feels this way, I gave ger and let her have the microphone yesterday. What's true to me is this and that is not what was said, right? It gives me a tool for conversation too and just that, like who's driving or who has the microphone.

is another interesting place that I think is like how this comes out. Because there's, we've talked mainly about the internal understanding. Another place I get curious is, I said something snarky to one of my kids yesterday. And you hear, and you're like, oof, like that doesn't, like who did I just give the mic to and what was that about? So this place of curiosity, I think in.

how parts intersect with how we communicate and relate to other people is a really important place. And there's a whole other, we could do a thousand other episodes on that side of it. But I just want to acknowledge, cause we've talked a lot about this as sort of internal understanding, but I would, mean, for me, as much as it's helped me understand and navigate myself, it's helped with my connectivity to and with other people too. So I just wanted to like.

Brooke
Let's say something about that. I'm so glad you named that. And especially since you work with and your audience is a lot of leaders, it helps us to live and lead with integrity, right? That's what I hear you talk about. Like it is such a good way to lead from integrity. If I get to be true to myself and honest with myself and go, that wasn't Me. That wasn't my deepest me, the truthiest truth.

And if I can own that, gosh, what a safe person I'm becoming in that moment because the other person goes, you know what, she's going to own it if she kind of slips into something else. And it's a modeling that they can do that too, right? That we don't have to show up perfect. We just get to name and own, hey, that, okay, that thing happened for me there. That wasn't how I want to show up. So important. I'm so glad you named that.

Heather
Yeah, thank you. I mean, it gives me chills too, I think, and a tenderness just thinking about how it changes my communication with my kids, right? Like, oof, I did this, there's a part of me that feels this way. I need you to know that that's not about you actually, that's about me. And even if that's true, I shouldn't have said that that way. So it helps in apology. It helps me understand how to get to sincere apology. It helps me communicate that.

It helps in separating, like, and hopefully you mentioned, right, shame. Like, that's not my behavior, like, don't own that. I need you to know that's not you. That was, that was, that was me. And again, a part of me. And I use that language, a part of me, because it still wasn't fully the me that I want to have step out.

with intention. think a lot of this to me, Brooke, just to tie a bow on it, is it feels very important to me to show up not only with authenticity, but to get there requires some intentionality. And so this is taking away the default, just allowing whatever default thing running in me to run its programs.

to really try to be intentional in a different way and it helps me do that.

Brooke
It's inspiring to me.

Heather
Well, and I'm, I just can't say enough about my gratitude for folks like you who are helping people walk alongside themselves in this curiosity, because it is not, I mean, I think a lot of you mentioned even some examples where we're going to avoid, like it doesn't feel safe to engage with certain parts of ourselves. The… what comes up for me, almost like being an authenticity doula.

Brooke
Ooh, can I write that down?

Heather
I talk about being a strategy doula, but I'm like, there's something about like this, the role that people like you play to sit alongside us. Because what I know from having coach, therapist, therapist is like, what I want is to show up and you, and I'm like, Brooke, figure me out. Let me know what the deal is. I want you to fix it actually is what I come with. That's not the game.

Brooke
That's right.

Heather
What instead I know to be true is coaches, therapists, supportive other professionals that can walk alongside me as I find my way to or back to me is such a gift. And I just want to honor on it has to feel, I mean, we talked about fatigue in the beginning. I know what a gift it is. know what a an energetic lift that is. So, I'm just, I really feel grateful, not only for you being here today, but for the work that you're up to in the world. And I just know, especially for folks who are like sensitive and feeling everything. And for my folks who are listening, I mean, I've been through my own

chapter of like, I care too much for that. I'm too sensitive for this. can't do this. Like we need all that. It's a superpower and we know it requires special tending. I know we're at time. I do want to make a little bit of space for anything else that feels like it's sitting with you that you want to make sure to leave with us before we wrap up today. I know we've

Brooke
Yeah, I'll just bounce right off what you left, you said. And thanks for your kind words. It's so kind. And yeah, it's really an honor. I'm sure like the work you do. Really an honor. Is something coming up for me is another reason of why I do this. Because it feels good to be living from that authentic self. It just does. And I think

All of us have been there of living in a moment, in a day, for a year, for a decade from a place that does not feel authentic. It doesn't feel good. It really doesn't. And so that authentic, authenticity doula and birthing ourselves or bringing ourselves home to our truest self, it's just, it's a good way to live. It's in and of itself.

Brooke
wonderful. And so I'm guessing that's just going to resonate with people. That feels like one of those truths that people are going to be like, yeah.

Heather
You feel that in your body.

Brooke
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heather
Well, again, thank you for being up for being our first expert on the and I I use the word expert loosely. We're all an expert in our own experience. And so everybody on here has expertise and I do want to acknowledge most of the people that have come on this show. Know me, we've worked together in some way and that this is a bit of a trust fall for you. I know and I really appreciate it. And for folks listening.

Gosh, we've said a hundred times, I hope you'll take away from this an even deeper curiosity. Some grace, compassion, like holding, I love Dick Schwartz book title, just no bad parts, like holding all the parts of you with some love and care. And let's continue to stay curious about ourselves.

I would argue the better we get at our own deeper curiosity and our understanding of how to integrate, the better even we get at our ability to do that work in the world. So it's not instead of, it's as part of, I think this bigger work that many of us are trying to do in the world. If this episode resonates, I hope y'all will let me know. Y'all know how to find us. I hope you'll share it with somebody and we'll look forward to seeing you again next time. you got another thing.

Brooke
Yeah, I just thought of a resource real quick.

Heather
Yeah, sure. And we'll put these in the show notes too. Great.

Brooke
Okay, great. Just speaking of where to start, I have a free resource called Coming Home to Yourself and it's a workshop. And it's working with some of this stuff, it's how to move in this direction of coming home to ourselves. yeah, just if someone's like, this really resonates, I don't know where to start, that could be a good place.

Heather
I love that and I actually meant to ask where can people find you if they're curious to learn more about you and your work? We'll tag all this in the show notes, but if there's anything else you want to highlight. So it sounds like coming home to yourself is an upcoming.

Brooke
It's already there. my site, intuitivewarriorway.com, that is a free resource. And I think it's a great way to both get a taste of me, but also it's just, I've gotten feedback that it's a really nice, robust, supportive thing.

Heather
I just love the title of it. It has to be lovely. So cheers to all of us and a coming home to ourselves and each other. Thank you all so much for being here. We'll see you next time. 

The Stand on the and podcast is supported by Human-Centered Strategy, where we help leaders and teams build connection and strategy and complexity so that everyone can flourish. To learn more or to work with us, please visit us online at humancenteredstrategy.com or message me on LinkedIn.